Students are always asking me bizarre questions. They think I'm a bit strange, so they expect an answer that will entertain them or at the least give them a good laugh. I could explain to them the idea of peaceful resolutions, and a roar of laughter would erupt. In fact I have, and it did. So when I was asked the day before Veterans day if I would celebrate those that chose to protect our country, I had a difficult response in front of me. My dad is a veteran. My grandpa was a veteran. My great grandpa was a veteran. My response took a minute or more, but it ended up being something along the lines of, "I will celebrate those people, yes, but possibly not the actions they performed or the country they served. That I will forever lament"
You see, I won't pledge my allegiance to this country, or any other country for that matter. I joined a Kingdom much larger, and that is the only place/people to whom I give my following. There would be no conceivable way to give my allegiance to two authorities, because those two authorities are bound to contradict. And when they do, I have two separate places I have pledged to serve, and ultimately I have to choose just one of them.
In this Kingdom peace is the true action of courage. This Leader has told us that war and retaliation will cause more war and retaliation. This Leader has told us that we have no need to fear an attack on our people, because our people are protected by His blood. This Leader has told us that those who die in His name will create more people who die in his name. This Leader has told us that the courageous action is not what it appears. If our people, in this Kingdom, are killed we have the assurance that has allowed us to live without defenses and retaliations. To live with the Freedom that we can die, at anytime, and spend an eternity with the same Kingdom to whom we gave our allegiance.
21 comments:
I totally understand your point man, although it is really invalid in so many ways.
You are right, the kingdom of God is big, wide, peaceful and diverse. But I don't really see why you wouldn't pledge an allegiance to a country that protects its freedom of speech, and promotes democracy. More than that a country that gives opportunity to everyone(no matter what religion) Yes, a country that will attack and defend when needed but not occupy, but in fact will aid the country that was attacked.
You are not in favor of violence, neither am I. But you know that sometimes it's the only choice. It's completely not logical to not counter attack when a whole nation of thousands of millions has been attacked. Now if do not respond with violence to an attack then what's the answer? Are we gonna surrender, and hug them, yeah right we'll get our head blown off. Are we going to try diplomacy with them, that will be ideal. If that does not work, then our only hope would be to save our lives and the lives of who we known. By unfortunately using violence. This country is FREE because of it, and of what they have done(Kill).
Someone has to do the job, and we don't have to hate on them because of what they did. In fact we have to pray for them, and like Jesus say even pray for our enemy too.
Also God's kingdom is spiritual not physical. We can pay allegiance to God's kingdom while we Pay allegiance to a country.
God Bless America!
Romans 13:1-4
13 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
A few points to think about Juan Ma....
1. Don't mistake country PRIDE with country ALLEGIANCE.
2. You can't separate the physical from the spiritual. No more than you can separate your life into compartments. What you end up with is a segmented life incapaple of its fullest potential. God's Kingdom is as much physical as it is spiritual. In fact, He asks us to strive for the heavenly Kingdom on earth "His Kingdom come, On Earth, as it is in Heaven". Thus you still end up with the dillema. It is impossible to give your whole-hearted following to two places.
3. I believe there is a peaceful resolution to every problem. I think this is in fact the more courageous action, and the much more difficult action. I think a person that dies in peace will create 10 more people that are peacemakers (not exact numbers, but just the idea). The diciples are the perfect example. The Kingdom of God exploded because of their devout following of the Kingdom of God, not the following of the Freedom of their country. On the flip side, every person that is dying in the name of violence (Taliban members for example) is creating more people who pick up weapons to die for that some reason. People search and search for a cause to die for.
4. This country may be FREE because of the bloodshed, but the Kingdom of God is FREE to die because of HIS blood. We just don't need anymore. So do we do nothing when there is an attack?? Absolutely not. We take our peace and love a step further. We are not passive, but rather active in our peace-making.
5. There is no FEAR of death anymore, so many of your points just don't stand (they presume that the goal is to live). When you accept His blood, you pay your allegiance to His Kingdom to die for His causes.
6. Democracy I will save for another day...
would love to continue to hear your thoughts....
Well i wish I could discuss this with you guys but I'm a punk anarchist who is completely against most types of governments and allegiance to anything really. I always have this same discussion with my history teacher and I think it is wrong to have such a closed minded attitude towards things like death war killing guns etc. like most of the american people have. I agree with Juanma that sometimes violence is necessary because you cant expect the people that do wrong to play the game with any type of moral values. If the so called "bad guys" are using guns and other advanced weapons to do harm you are not going to just fight that with moral and justice. You need to fight fire with fire sometimes even if that means blood will be shed.
Responding to your points:
1.Indeed, both are not the same.
2.You are right in that sense, but I still don't understand the point of "paying allegiance to God's kingdom", instead to a country(from what you said it sounds like a replacement) . It just doesn't make sense. As the bible says God has established rulers, and we have to stick with them.
3.Here you are wrong bro. Sometimes violence is the answer, and period. For example let me ask you, what would you have done after the Pearl Harbor attack? or after 9/11? You can't make peace with nations that completely want to destroy you. On the other hand yes, you can solve many issues with a 'peaceful revolution' (like Martin Luther King did) Therefore you can't generalize 'peace' as an answer for every conflict. Now,it should be the ideal answer for EVERY conflict YES, but logically it's not.
4.Diplomacy should be always the first step towards an attack, I agree. But when that works violent defense is the answer. It's or you or them
5. Exactly bro that's when the problem comes with Islam. They die for his religious cause ( by KILLING OTHERS). But you are insinuating here we have to die for Jesus? Well yes that makes sense in some kind....But we don't harm others. we won't reject him I guess.
I think we should be grateful and patriotic for the ones that fought(even violently) for a right cause. And also for the ones that fought peacefully. It would be interesting to get into more detail though.
1ma
Making a correction....I meant 'when diplomacy doesn't work' in number 4... :D
Bonjour, jovenwatson.blogspot.com!
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Maybe you have forgotten the admonition, "to obey your leaders and authorities", and to render "unto Caesar what is Caesar's"....Not only did David defeat Goliath, but he cut off his head and held it up to rally Israel's army, to fight, knowing when you are right, and having strength in being a righteous and capable hand of God's presence in the world....Perhaps you need to learn some more before you influence children who need to see the bigger picture. But, credit is due you just for finding the path, brother.
Yes, Bion, I have no doubt that I have much to learn. But it is a leap in logic to state that a person must know everything (correctly) before he/she begins to influence children. We all influence the people around us based on how we live, not exactly what we know. It is the pursuit of knowledge that leads us into action, not the arrival of knowledge.
For instance, Martin Luther King Jr. influenced millions of people. He taught of nonviolence. Was his influence on millions of children incomplete because he needed to learn more?
Jesus, as well, taught of nonviolence.
Just the other day, an automatic was found in one of our students' lockers. Why? Because he's been taught from an early age that you need to defend your honor, and that if you are right, violence is an acceptable answer. Then, this past week, a student was nearly beaten to death in our hallways because of the same reason. So teaching nonviolence in my school is not such a bad notion. In fact, in a community like this, it is the only idea that will begin to make a difference, because it's Jesus' idea, not mine.
I saw no response to anything I wrote about. What I did see was an immediate referral to a time when nations needed to fight and kill. Yes, the hand of God was with them then, and the hand of God is with those who believe His blood is sufficient now.
Blessed are the Peacemakers.
Jon, you got me there! I let my anger toward what you were saying get in the way of my better judgment, sorry, apology offered! You sound like a competent teacher, and it sounds like you need all the help you can get...
But even though Christ never encouraged violence, He certainly exhibited it, when He picked up a "scourge", and whipped the money changers out of His fathers house. Also, he told His disciples to "sell their cloak and buy a sword". That would be the equivalent of "packing a pistol" today...(not that I am recommending that for the classroom, mind you)!
And even though He told us to turn the other cheek, He never told us to not to defend ourselves, and our families. There are considerations and different recourse's in every situation. Your country gave it's life blood for you and your brother's freedom, and you give no allegiance to it? That's like the old Jews saying that they are released from their commitments to their parents because they have a law of man, rather than a law of God to obey....(Mark 7:8)remember "corban"?
I have faith in you young man, because you have chosen the way of God, not because you have all the answers....live and learn!
I think it's time to post here! You need to write about your daughter. Love, her Grammy
Hey Jonathon, (Jon, jonny?)
Nate Lattimore here. I'm married to Katherine, one of your wife's family friends. I think we've briefly met at Pine Ridge.
I LOVE your post. It's awesome to hear of teachers that will discuss the tough issues with our students!
Go with courage!
Nate
Are you by any chance an anabaptist? It's hard to believe people can reconcile being a Christian and using violence to "defend" their home. I guess forgetting God's commandments is easier than living in exile.
nope not an anabaptist. not defined as anything really. just a guy that dreams big, and believes that the future kingdom should be our goal here on earth....
I really can´t believe that I have wrote what I have.... It´s quite clear that I was brainwashed into believing that murdering was OK,necessary, and benevolent. That´s why recruitment, and some indoctrination which I´ve received in some high school classes is disgusting, and not ethical. It´s also obvious that society in general has developed a certain love , and fear to violence. And thus, we get laws that violate our indivual freedoms, and wars that violate people´s life. In conclusion, I have come to the point in which I hate the government, but love the people.
responding to your 1st comment you did in response to mine.
(1) I agree.
(2)I understand that, but I hope you don´t take that literally. For example, like some of the Southern Republicans do. In whih they literally wanna bring the kingdom of heaven to the government. And therefore eliminate freedom of religion, and enforce their morallity towards the people.
(3)Peace is the best answer to everything. However if governments(which have the ´´legal´´ monopoly of violence) still exist, I can´t see peace in the future.
(4)I changed my opinion radically on why the U.S is free. Because it is obviously not. Saying that bloodshed made the U.S free is simply another tactic that the government uses to kill. Most countries, and this one also have a lot of laws that eliminate, and trash individual freedoms. Let´s remember that those are freedoms that come from our creator, not from the government. Not to mention the horrible current situation with immigrants. And past situations in which the U.S has pretty much been authoritarian, and tyrinacal as it is now. The patriot act is a big example sugh acts. Also let´s not forget the bailouts, the marriage between corporations, and government. And Unions and governments.
5. Well yes. That thought can be dangerous though. Although I know that you won´t kill someone in the name of jesus (like in the crusades) I know that dying (not killing) because of him, is something that will be rewarded in heaven. But some people take that phrase away in another context.
6. “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”
-John Adams
I suggest you to read this Mr. Watson - http://www.gonzotimes.com/2010/10/give-ceasar/
I hope I´d get a response, woould love to hear it. :)
Sorry for posting so many times. Wasnt intentional. Google got a bit crazy
Juan Ma,
I'm surprised I still get comments on this post!
I'm planning on writing another post one of these days, I promise.
Until then, I'm glad you are thinking about these things as much as your are. It's good to always re-evaluate what we believe and why! I'll respond someday soon!
Mr. Watson
Good point, though sometimes it's hard to arrive to definite conclusions
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YES! I'm so glad to see someone respond logically!
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